1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,280 Good morning. We're talking with Ivan Sanderson, the gentleman that investigated the West Virginia 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:15,560 Monster. And we have Walter Rochette with us, and we also have Donald Cohen with us. Now, 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,320 Hugh McPherson, he's been very interested in getting the facts about the famous West 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Virginia Monster. I think Grave Barker was the author of a book they knew too much about 5 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:34,300 flying saucers. And if I'm not mistaken, Ivan, you investigated the West Virginia Monster. 6 00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:37,760 Grave and I were there at the same time. It's my direct alumnus. A lot of other newspaper 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,760 reported it. Well, now we're taping this portion of this morning's show, and we're going to send 8 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:48,000 this tape down to Hugh McPherson. Isn't that what Hugh McPherson has a minor bird that works 9 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,080 with him on the program? Oh, yes, I know his name, and I know his work, too. My brother's a good minor 10 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,880 for composing you tell us something about the West Virginia Monster. Are you ready with the tape? 11 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:05,640 Well, it's going right now. Well, Hugh, I'd like to try and put it in a nutshell as follows, 12 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:12,080 as I did before. First of all, I went down there about five or six days after the account took 13 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:17,920 place as a request of the North American newspaper allowance for whom I do some reporting work, 14 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:24,240 special representation. And also on behalf of True Magazine, it was Ken 30 of True Magazine, 15 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:30,560 who when running out of his office one day on some pilot business, picked at random out of 16 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:38,000 a massive tipping that used to come to his desk every day, a perfectly ridiculous statement that 17 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:45,920 a 12 foot green monster with red glowing eyes had been seen on a mountain top at Fatwood 18 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:53,280 in, I think it's Saxon County, isn't it? West Virginia. I didn't know I was going to be asked 19 00:01:53,280 --> 00:02:00,480 to tell you about this tonight, so if my name's wrong, forgive me. And he gave this report, Ken 20 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,400 30, to John Newberry of True Magazine, who is the aviation editor and was interested in flying 21 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,440 sources and such. And to get a hold of Ivan Sanderson and get down there and see what this is all about. 22 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,040 Ken 30 had a massive genius of picking a news story. So I was running up and asked to go down, 23 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:24,000 so my assistant, Eddie Schoenberg and I jumped in on old Techicab, we had a panel, we took off. 24 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,440 I may say that on the way down, we went through the worst rainstorm that I have witnessed anywhere 25 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:35,200 in the world. And I lived in that family, and I lived in, right on Kegs of Wincher in West Africa, 26 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:41,120 which is a two point of highest rainfall in the world, but I have never seen rain like we had 27 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:47,360 on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. But we rolled into that was the next morning. 28 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,240 That's Flatwood, West Virginia? Yeah. 29 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:56,080 Saxon County, I think it is, the XPO in County, West Virginia. It's in the mountains, it is north of 30 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,040 Charleston, West Virginia. How does the roads there compare with those in Europe? 31 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,040 What, in the hills? Oh, excellent. They have very good motor roads going through. Of course, 32 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:14,080 there are an enormous number of little much quite roads, dirt roads going up to the hills, 33 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:19,680 because there's been extensive mining throughout this entire area. If you fly over it, you will see 34 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,480 mineheads and mineshafts everywhere. And the top of these are these wooded hills, 35 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,640 which is in fact completely covered with these dirt roads. Well, make a long story short, 36 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:35,760 this is what we found out during our investigation. There were a number, there were 14 old tells, 37 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:47,840 a number of young people, kids and up to the age of 14. So playing football on a small field 38 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:54,000 in the bottom of the Little Valley in the village of Flatwood. The village of Flatwood is the one 39 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:59,680 end of the Little Valley. It's ringed around by mountains, as you down there will probably know 40 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:06,880 better than I do. Or our listeners up here. Now, who this valley runs the road, a black top road 41 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:12,240 going from north to south, also a railway line, a railway track. As at the opposite end of the 42 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:20,000 Little Valley to the village is a small railroad station. And that is a dirt road that crosses 43 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:27,760 the rail tracks leading off the, or the black top, just by that rail station, then curves up 44 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:34,560 around the back of one of these mountains and for the petasized at a field. And up that road, 45 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,920 the stuff on the side of this hill, I would say the very stony hill, or a number of dwellings, 46 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,880 up on the top of the back of the mountain are four or five of all the larger houses. 47 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:52,000 One of those houses is occupied by a family by the name of May. The lady, Mrs. May, if I remember 48 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,080 right, is principally concerned and is a fair. These kids were playing just before sundown, 49 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,760 down on this field at the bottom of the village. And one of the kids looked up, and one of the 50 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:10,960 little ones, I differentiate between kids and young people. The kids are five, six, seven 51 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,680 year olds, and the young people above that, you see. One of the kids looked up and he said, 52 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,720 and so many words, what on earth is that? And they all looked around and round, 53 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:28,800 round the edge of a hill behind the village, the northern village, but lower than the peak of 54 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:35,200 that hill, all the one opposite, it came a pear shaped, glowing red object, which was pulsing 55 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:41,520 from cherry red to bright orange, according to all the witnesses. It was traveling blunt end first. 56 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:49,360 It traveled quite slowly across the valley over their heads and just managed to pop the mountain 57 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,040 on the other side or the hill on the other side of the valley, which is that hill behind which 58 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:01,280 there are these dwellings of which I spoke a moment ago. Well, the kids all said, as I said, 59 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:06,880 gee, what was that? And one of the elder boys, his name was Nunn, a very, very intelligent boy, 60 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:16,960 14 years old, had remembered that at school, they had been asked, if they saw a meteor or 61 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,600 anything like that, and saw anything fall from the sky, that the geological survey would be 62 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,800 interested in getting the remains of the geological found on the ground. And he said, come on, that 63 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,840 may be a bolide or something, and something looks as if it landed behind that hill, because I must 64 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:36,880 point out, yes, I'm sorry, that the kids all state categorically that this object, this large, 65 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:42,800 glowing object, which appears to be about the size of a house, seemed to pause when it topped the hill 66 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:48,640 and then to think, instead of going on down in the sort of trajectory, it stopped and sank slowly 67 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:54,480 down behind the hill, and they could see this light pulsing behind the crest of the hill. And 68 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:59,840 Nunn said, the 14 year olds have come on, let's run up there, something may have landed and we 69 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,160 may be able to get something to the geological survey, which I think is pretty bright and intelligent. 70 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:10,240 So the kids ran up the black top, taking a few minutes, turned left on the dirt road, 71 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,280 crossed the railway track, went up around behind the hill, and as they ran between the houses, 72 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,080 several people come out on the verandahs and they said, what's going on? And one of the younger kids 73 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:27,920 said, a flying saucer has landed, picking up, I mean, one of the little ones, you see, 74 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:33,520 Mrs. May and the young man is the 18 who had just joined the National Guard, I think, 75 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,480 or the services or something, was visiting with her. Another people came out and they grabbed 76 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,160 a big flashlight because it was just getting dark and they saw this huge thing lying in a field, 77 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:50,320 about two fields away, up by the crest. So they all gathered together, there were, 78 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,440 in the end, I'm sorry, I was wrong in saying that the 14 kids played, the total party in the end 79 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:01,840 was 14. So there must have been, there was May, this is May and the young man, and then there were 80 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:07,760 11 kids, and then there was a little one, a little five-year-old, also once named Darne, 81 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,880 as I remember, a right, who was of one of the houses and he tagged along behind, and to me, 82 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,960 he is one of the most important witnesses in the whole case because it was extraordinary honestly 83 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,800 when he asked him certain things, he said, but, Mr. I couldn't see, I'm too too low down, 84 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,440 there was grass there between me, I mean, these kids were the most straightforward 85 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,480 honest witnesses I've ever known, heard? They all started out and they ran up the ridge where 86 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,160 there's a path. Pardon me, didn't the little boy have his dog with him? Well, a dog, a collie dog, 87 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:45,280 belonging to another house, not Mrs. May, nor, nor the 18-year-old, but there was a collie-like 88 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,080 dog that was there. Yes, thank you John, for reminding me of that, it's a very important 89 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,200 thing in the case, it started off with them, when they came to a gate which was, which was changed, 90 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,960 and they unchained it to being good country folks, when they got through the gate, they, 91 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:08,000 we changed the gate, so we know the time of that, that, that gate was a, I think a five-par, but it 92 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:14,480 was up almost by my neck, and I'm exactly six foot tall, by my gate. You were actually down there 93 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,840 after this event took place. We arrived there, for every point of it, we're a great marker, 94 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,760 great marker arrived while we were there, but we had some other friends from Santa's 95 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:29,440 hut from Mont Santa Chemical, one of whom was a great photographer, Walter, and I photographed 96 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,960 every single thing, it was, we mapped it and surveyed it, we searched the ground, 97 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:41,440 at almost inch by inch, and as, as the fact, or in the place, I'll tell you how, but this gate is 98 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:46,880 important, it was a high gate, and they rechanged it, and they went on up this path, by which time 99 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,880 it was very, very dark, and they turned the flash on, the dog by this time had run ahead, now what 100 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,480 they, what they saw up there, they were within, I mean they were within paces of this thing, 101 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,640 and I think you know the spotitude was shown by those people walking up through the pretty 102 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:08,400 unknown object, which they pointed out to me a house, an outhouse, for the little barn, and I 103 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,520 said how big was it, and they said about that size, we measured that, the whole two-story barn, 104 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:19,360 and this morning it was 22 foot high, they said this thing had landed with the nose, the blunt end 105 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:27,200 down, so it formed not exactly a pair, but it was more like a space, so standing up the field, 106 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,360 and they walked up to within certainly 50 paces of it, according to their description, 107 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:40,480 at which time it was standing upright, and making no noise, but, but, but pouty, with very bright 108 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:46,560 light, from cherry red to very pale orange, uh, I got ahead of my story for a minute and said, 109 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:52,960 what until where's the end, when we had questioned all these people, or these older kids, together, 110 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:58,960 in various combinations of two, three, four, and five, and singly, and they mixed them up again, 111 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:05,760 and we, for three days we went on, and they never deviated from their stories, one single iota, 112 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,960 and if you can tell me, there's a bunch of 12 kids, can get together and make up a lie, 113 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:19,120 and stick to it for 10 days, and they're the most grueling, uh, preferences, because of a 114 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,800 professional report, is that you interrogate them individually, individually, in, in combinations 115 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,240 of different twos, and threes, and fours, and all together, and over three days, and they'll 116 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:35,280 lose never in the evidence, we have it taped, and we have it written down, there was never a mistake, 117 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:41,920 some added a few touches which were not exaggeration, some of them, uh, became a little doubtful as to 118 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,080 whether it was just as they said the first, some of the second, but they never deviated 119 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,920 in their overall story, and I think that's very, very a powerful factor, uh, in evaluating the whole 120 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,040 thing, and it wasn't to write the end, but one of the younger kids, I don't know which one now, 121 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,840 I think, but once you tried to be learned to this thing, he said, but this, it wasn't hot, 122 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,520 we naturally, everybody, suppose, because of this tremendous light, that the thing was hot, 123 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,440 it was pulsing, oh no, no, no, he said it's like, um, like a neon sign, he said it's not hot, it wasn't 124 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:19,040 hot, and they had kept on saying that it was black, and I said, well, this is pulsing cherry red 125 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,040 to orange, how do you say it's black, and I said it was obviously a black object 126 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,200 which was giving out this light, all right, well, they go along, they just let the flash, 127 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,120 the dog had run ahead, and all around this object, there was a thick mist, looked like a ground mist, 128 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:40,400 a patch of it, lying on the side of a hill, now you do get these patches of mist, uh, at sundown, 129 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:46,160 sometimes a little cold, it's up on a hill, and they had assumed that it was that, but they stratified 130 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,200 they very seldom lie along the side of a hill, not as much as they would on a definite strata, 131 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,880 they look, uh, bone and ear, excuse me, and in that climate, uh, fish off this tremendously 132 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,240 heavy rains, I have seen the little sort of scooped out calls on the side of a hill, actually 133 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,480 filled with mist, and it's sort of spilling over the edge almost like it's treatable, 134 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,400 well actually it holds there like waterwood with a definite top level, doesn't it? 135 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,200 No, it's stuck on the side in some cases, it's got a patch right over an area where the soil 136 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,440 may be particularly moist, and just for a few minutes while it's coming out of sundown, 137 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,360 you get a just like a round blob on the side, and they're used to that, and they thought that's 138 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:31,280 what it was, but the dog ran into this mist, going barking at this object according to their story, 139 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,920 he immediately set up a house, and took all the batteries with the speed of the light, 140 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:42,960 down to the village, and was subsequently found having vomited all over the randa, and subsequently 141 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:50,240 died. Now, in other words, evidence of poison, yeah, leave that aside for a moment, in other 142 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:56,320 words, it was a gas, it was a gothic smell, and this is what was in the report, a gothic smell of 143 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:03,600 hot molten metal, and they caught the smell, although only one of them bent down and got his head in 144 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:10,080 the gas, and that was the one of the young, no, the 18 year old, the 18 year old boy, so I had to 145 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,120 skip ahead in my story, but this is what happened, they had this, this splash, they were looking at 146 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:20,720 the object, and then suddenly one of the kids behind said, look up in the tree, now there was one 147 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,600 oak tree growing, I'd say, right on the top of the ridge, and there's a little pathway to bottom, 148 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:33,040 this oak tree was on a bank, three foot bank on the left of the pathway, the big object was a 149 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,440 little bit further down the hill to the right, if you follow me, this is to the left, the first 150 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,000 branch going out of the oak tree, which was a clear branch, went measured from the underneath of the 151 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,320 branch to the path on which they were standing, was 12 foot 6 inches above, now they pointed, 152 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:55,360 this kid pointed up to this branch, and underneath the branch, apparently suspended in the air, 153 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,920 was a creature or a thing or an object, about the size of a very heavy set man, but obviously 154 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:09,360 contained in some kind of suit, or what looks from their drawings, their composite drawing, they all 155 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,480 did sketches, and we put a ton of this on, it looks exactly like one of the most modern 156 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:20,800 naval diving suits, which is solid, the person is inside, it has a pair of artificial arms in front, 157 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:27,280 as you can crank, the head goes into a headpiece, which has a glass plate in the front, silicon 158 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:32,320 glass plate, and it's got lights in it, so that you can see in the dark, and the whole thing is 159 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,800 is suspended in water, mostly by gas tanks, so there's no great weight on the wire, so the wire 160 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,960 that's been lifted down is nothing much more than an anchor, and has the telephone cable, and so on, 161 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,680 going up, this thing was for all the world like that in the drawings, and at first they thought it 162 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:54,800 was a 12 foot giant thing standing there, because the bottom half of it, if it had any, was left 163 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:00,720 behind a lot of little tall grass, and the bryals, who had missed two covers, now the 164 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,560 mist was down to the right by the big after, down to the right, it was perfectly clear up to the 165 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:10,240 left on this little bank, and the first bank, and then all this vegetation, this herbage growing on it, 166 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,120 and this thing was sticking out of the top of the herbage, but underneath the first limit to three, 167 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:21,040 you're wondering, they thought it was a coon, it's first, because they saw that it's over two eyes, 168 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,600 they described them as being pale blue, held close together, and like very dim, flashlight 169 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:34,480 beams, but coming out of the plate glass window on the front of the head of this, whatever it was, 170 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:40,560 they were fixed beams, but the thing was turning slowly around, waving from left to right, and 171 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:46,720 right to left, as if it was searching the horizon with these beams, I may interject here, that that's 172 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,800 particular point, it's the highest in the whole area, and standing where that object was, you can 173 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:59,360 see 14 light beams scattered over the mountains, the way over west of Virginia, and down into Virginia, 174 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:05,920 and right back up the other side, in other words, somebody suggested that this thing was looking 175 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,520 for its colleagues, or we're looking to find out where it was, but apparently when the flashlight 176 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:18,400 came on, the object tilted over, so that these two little beams came down and concentrated on them, 177 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:25,680 and then immediately began to, began to silently drift through the air, sort of in a half circle, 178 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:31,920 towards them and around the left, to go down from its left, to go down towards the big pulsing object, 179 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:37,120 the red thing that was lying in the field, so scared were they when this tremendous thing came 180 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:43,680 towards them, which was a sort of aluminum gray color, but perfecting the color of the bushes 181 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,760 and such, which gave the idea of green, because swung of his little man, green man always, 182 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:55,200 used their position, they were so scared, the guy dropped the flash, and he bent over to pick it up, 183 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:03,520 and in doing so, he got his head into this, into this ground mist, well, John the Head again, 184 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,640 he became so violent to Hill, as a result they called a doctor, half an hour later down to the house, 185 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,240 and didn't use a stomach pump, but everything short of it, and also it seemed to have had an 186 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,440 extraordinarily psychological effect on him, because he was a fine, outstanding young man, 187 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,920 that he absolutely and positively refused, even the next day to go back up that Hill, 188 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,480 it seemed, and he was in a frightful state at night, the doctor was really worried about him, 189 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:33,280 he was completely knocked out, however, but of course they also called, and I don't blame them, 190 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,640 when this thing started to sail through the air towards them, how about the gate? Well, I know 191 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,000 John, you like the gate, but I got this from the little in front of all, a little, I think his name 192 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:49,520 was Johnny Nunn, I was asking him at various points, well, what happened when you came to the gate, 193 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:56,800 and no, not that kind of gate at all, it was a five barge gate, and a space between it, 194 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:03,200 perhaps a wooden, but certainly not more than a 12 inches, I said, well, what happened when you 195 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:08,560 came to the gate, and he said, well, I don't know, don't write him down, Mr. He said, I didn't try the 196 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,320 gate, he said, I went under the hedge, because I'm small, but he said, I know that Mrs. May took 197 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,360 it in one, she went through those, and he said, some of them, I think went through the gate, Mr. 198 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,600 First of all, I couldn't tell at that point what they had done, but anyhow, they killed the gate in one. 199 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,640 The Olympics, Mr. Goodman, they sure did, but it would be impossible to take the time, 200 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,960 to open up the gate again. Well, they weren't taking time, brother, not, not then they were 201 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,560 making time, they weren't taking it, and they were right back down to the house, well, to finish 202 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:43,520 off this part of the story, but we only found much later on, after a considerable amount of 203 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,880 questioning all over the district, we found a farmer who lived on a mountain, on a mountain, 204 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:56,320 on a hill, about three miles away to the southeast, who was the only person who had 205 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,960 had appeared as a pair of binoculars on this object. He thought that the house was on fire, 206 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:07,120 but it began to look funny, and he couldn't see very well, it was about three mountain peaks, 207 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,520 so three hill peaks away, so he went inside, he got out of no pair of binoculars, which he showed me, 208 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:18,560 they were three World War I, and he is the only person we know who's able to state, or make any 209 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,480 statements to what happened to that great big outfit. What happened to a little one, I don't know, 210 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,480 it looked very much like it was trying to get back into the big one, but he watched the big 211 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:36,480 object, and he said that for a matter of 10 to 15 minutes it continued to pout, and it pouted 212 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,880 the same colors, but getting redder and redder, and weaker and weaker amount of light, and he felt 213 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,840 very sure that the whole object itself was diminishing in size, and he said it finally 214 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:53,120 disappeared about 20 minutes later in a thin point of light, and then it was complete darkness. 215 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,800 Now when the gang who had been up to it got back down to the houses, 216 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,840 they, a lot of people began to gather, it was great rumpus, they sent for a doctor, and they tried to, 217 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,400 they gave them a telephone of one of the houses, and they telephoned for the local police to come, 218 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,480 but the local police were already out investigating something else, the financials of the end office 219 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:20,720 in a moment, but they called a lot of these men together, and they got shotguns, and they phoned 220 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,360 the poppy, and they went out to investigate, at least they said they did, they were back in 221 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:31,200 finished order, stating categorically that they could find nothing, but they did not get going 222 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:37,520 for these half an hour after the incident, by which time, according to this farmer, this thing 223 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,720 had winked out, it did not go away, it had just disappeared inside you, therefore they may be 224 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,360 perfectly honest in saying that they had not seen anything, and I think they may be an honest 225 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:53,200 in saying that they went up there, because they did report this perfectly nasty, nauseating smell 226 00:21:53,200 --> 00:22:00,400 of molten metal, and peculiar. Now where was the road patrol? This is what we found out when we got 227 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,200 there, that's that side of the story, we then started asking around all over the district, 228 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,760 to the paper corner and such, did you see the things, and they also know that they're flying 229 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:19,120 towards the ha ha ha, but we saw the meteor, well then we started mapping, we had a big aerial map 230 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:24,960 of the whole area, and we started mapping where they, at what time they said they saw said meteor, 231 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,120 and then we came up with one very interesting discovery, there has not been one object that 232 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:38,800 had been fixed, six different objects, six identical, identical, but different objects, 233 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:45,360 one, two, three, four, five, six, they were all traveling, let's say to make it perfectly simple, 234 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:54,720 from north to south, the one on the east side was spotted all along a line by about 30-40 people, 235 00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,480 he passed right over the Sutton airport, and was then reported during that night, 236 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:06,320 all the way down to Alabama, in a perfectly straight line, according to what you said another 237 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,880 course would begin, that was just one of them, that was the most eastern most southern, they were 238 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:17,120 traveling along a straight front almost exactly five of our miles apart, the only time they 239 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,040 had paired to have deviated from that from the reports was when they went around a hill or a 240 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,880 mountain, but they were keeping on a steady course from north to south, traveling not too far, I 241 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,000 should imagine by we asked the kids to put your finger in the air and pass it from left to right, 242 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,640 show us how fast it how long it took to get across flatwood, and it took, 243 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,760 well that would be about jet speed as you demonstrated here, oh no, jet would go 244 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,400 really, godlike, I guess, the direction they were out of to, yeah this thing was not more than 200 245 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:57,680 foot up from where they were standing, and it took I would say a radio time 25 seconds 246 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,560 apart from the hill 45 degree angle from there to there, now for the way they've shown this, 247 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,600 because they were going pretty slow, there was a steady speed, all right eastern one, number one 248 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,360 went straight on down, got away, number two was the flatwood one, the landing, I call that a landing, 249 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,360 number three came around the hill, went over a road and crashed into the side of a mountain, 250 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,240 that was Graybarker and I, and Eddie went up and investigated to that, and that's where we found 251 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,040 this peculiar stuff, was the ground seared at that point, well if I may be that from 252 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:36,160 around our country, number three crashed on another mountain top on the land of two remarkable young 253 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,600 men who have farmed their farm all their lives, although they are both crippled, they do it all 254 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,760 by tractor, but they cannot farm the knoll on their uplands because it's full of rocks, and so they 255 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,480 can't get into the farm, so they could, they couldn't persuade anybody to go and investigate this knoll 256 00:24:52,480 --> 00:25:00,240 where they had seen this one land for their eyes, that's number four, number five blew up in the sky 257 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:07,360 right up in front of four members, six members of our national caving society, cave exploration 258 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:12,320 society, at the houses which people call the McClain, they were sitting on the veranda after 259 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,480 having been out on the caving expedition, and they saw this thing come around the mountain, it was 260 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:23,360 amazed, and it blew up right over some fields, and Mrs. Whitham was one of the members who was there, 261 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:28,640 told me off to compete in this one, there was a lot of kind of ashes shot out of his cattle all over 262 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:37,040 the land, I think human years first to be geologists, you didn't even go to pick up some, and number six 263 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,720 missed and went right on and was seen all the way down in a parallel line to Alabama almost as well, 264 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:50,800 so one went on, two landed, three crashed into this mountain top, four crashed into the mountain 265 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,120 top, five blew up in the air and six got away, there's some very good reasons for that, now you 266 00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:01,680 went on your stories of unguided missiles, doesn't it, but except for this one, the landing one, 267 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:08,880 if it was a missile, if it had missed that mountain top, which it did, it would have 268 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,080 sailed right on over the next valley and hit the next hill on the side, but it didn't, it had stopped 269 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:21,600 and landed, and I know that it landed because where it landed, it had pushed a, it had pushed a 270 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,920 circular depression into the ground, but exactly verticals in the center of the earth, if you will 271 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,920 mean, not a slosh downwards, in other words it wasn't a glancing blow, it was a direct 272 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,680 come down and it would have been weight and a lot of weight because the grass there was never 273 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,560 grown field, it was knee high, it was waist high, and full of little trees and bushes, all that 274 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:50,320 was from big fat, and the ground itself was fat, and there was some considerable stones, not boulders, 275 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,400 but stones inside those man's head, lying in there, maybe pushed right down into the ground, 276 00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,640 all had considerable mass and weight, definitely, and also at, at the three points, 277 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:07,840 equidistant around it, there were three holes jammed into the ground at the edge of the circle, 278 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:14,400 which looked exactly as if a carthouse with a foot, or with a, with a hoof of our two foot across, 279 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:20,720 had been jammed down into the ground, as if a tricep had stood on a tripod, that's what it looked 280 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:29,680 like, exactly similar marks we found up where number three crashed, sort of five of them, 281 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:36,560 Eddie Schoenberg, Ray Barker, Raymond Walters, and one of the governments from Montanjo myself, 282 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,840 we had reported this to be very reliable, I would often have time to go into, we searched this 283 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,200 mountain, and the mountain side on our hands and knees, plowing our way up to the first feet, 284 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,240 we found nothing until we got to the top, and over the top there was a little swamp up there, 285 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:59,360 with small trees behind the beam, forest, tall trees, and in there I found a huge stack of 286 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:04,880 skid marks, which had knocked these bushes down, and there were, there was a depression in that, 287 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:11,440 and also two of these tremendous hoof-like things pushed into the ground, and beyond it, 288 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,760 a whole mass of little pieces, little coils of white plastic-like material, kind of all over the 289 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,320 ground, I'll tell you about that. I've been going back to the depression, how large was that 290 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:30,240 depression? Well the depression itself was about 15 foot across, we measured it, 15 or 16 foot, 291 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,000 you couldn't go tell exactly where it ran out, the size, because it was a this-shaped depression, 292 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:44,880 the reason I asked, are you familiar with the experimental work that Mr. Mosier-Kawanda is 293 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:52,080 now doing in Canada? What on, on the did? Yeah. Well I read something about it, but I don't 294 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,080 remember anything about it. Would you have any connection with some things? Well I'm just wondering, 295 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,920 if it could have been an experiment on my model. Well, should be working on it for some time. 296 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,080 Yeah, that's true, but wait, before we get on to that, let me just conclude our reports from down 297 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,800 there, and then I'd like to just pick that up, because it's an awesome one, and then that, 298 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,840 I don't think both the machines are made to dissolve, are they? Not quite, no. 299 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:28,400 Contrary. Nor do they give out with some kind of plastic or something. No, they give out with 300 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,520 flames. With flames too, yeah. Well this was definitely cold at these proportions, we believe, 301 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:40,560 in each case incidentally, because number three here, he thought, the fellow who saw it, he thought 302 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,520 that this was a flaming airplane, came around it, came around the corner of the hill. This one we, 303 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,680 we investigated, well anyhow, to conclude this part, Eddie Schoenenberger happened to be looked back 304 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,280 up at the trees, from the direction in which number three had come before it had to crash in 305 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,400 his swamp, and he, he said, look at that, and there was a whole tree top knocked off, and several 306 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,280 other branches all reason to shatter, and always make a hole from the top of the tree. Was there 307 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,040 any odor around there? No, because we were five, six days off, this was about a week after the other 308 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:20,080 one had occurred. Well wasn't there, I think I heard that there was the local editor of the newspapers, 309 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:28,240 or one of the members of the police department, went over and got down on the ground on all fours, 310 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,680 and he noticed that there were still some stench remaining there. As a matter of fact, first of all, 311 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:39,280 the party, the people reported it, as that was, then the party went up, and they were so nauseated, 312 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,560 they wanted to get out of there, it was critical possible, and he said it was at the other party, 313 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:48,720 in the meantime, the road patrol was unable to come, because they were investigating number three, 314 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,720 but the local police arrived from Braxton County, it's not Braxton County, I'm sorry, from the 315 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,840 town of Sutton, they fell down on their hands, and they didn't have to, they noticed the smell, 316 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:07,680 and the very charming gentleman I met down there, the owner of the Republican paper, 317 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,560 this too is the Republican and Democratic paper, the head of the Democratic paper, 318 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,080 deeply interested in this, and he brought Mrs. May and the young fellow, the name of the company, 319 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,840 up to New York for a show, I think it was a bit relevant or something here, I'm just, 320 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,960 and they were gone while we were down there, but this other gentleman had personally been 321 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,320 up there that night, he's very, very much alive, to local affairs, and happening, and he was up 322 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,640 there right smart during the night, and he smelled it too, but the next morning, there was a lot of 323 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,560 confusion, there's always red herring, there's always these things, a lot of people started turning 324 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:48,160 up, and they said that the grass there was covered with oil, well it wasn't, the grass, all the grass 325 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:53,040 there is covered with kind of oil, it's called oil graph or tar graph, you can park your hand there 326 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,440 with a whip of it, when it's growing, pull it up, and you'll handle the sticky arches, and it has a 327 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,880 rather lovely aromatic smell, that I am assured by all the local people, they had nothing what they 328 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:08,720 would do with this perfectly gauze, this stench, which had occurred from this, from this place, 329 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:14,400 other than this thing or whatever it was that landed, well just to, to, um, surround up this whole 330 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,440 thing, water, and the benefit of our friends down there who want to hear this report on taste, 331 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,520 there are certain aspects of the whole, um, uh, phenomena which are of great interest, and that 332 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:31,360 is this, but at that particular time, which was in September, I think 1953, or could you do that, 333 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:38,800 I can't remember, there had been some enormous forest fires in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and we 334 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:44,240 were revealing in New York here, even a very high smoke count in the air, that we had a case, 335 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,880 you recall it, and we had Y-Gash landing, point number one, point number two on this particular 336 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:56,880 course, which all of us have found out to me, by the chemists down there, that block of hills over 337 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,840 which these six objects came, looked down into a series of valleys running parallel, and those 338 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,880 valleys are filled with coal mines, which are belching smoke all the time, Montana chemical 339 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,680 plants, and other enormous chemical plants, and other installations for which that part of it, 340 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,840 of the country is famous, belching smoke in carbonaceous gasses of all time, the women 341 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,040 happen to be blowing straight up these valleys up this mountain, there was the smoke from the forest 342 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,640 bar that was all of this accumulation, and there was a barrier of carbonaceously filled air, 343 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:37,360 arising at the heads of these valleys, but object number one and object number six were to the left 344 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,800 and right of that area, and they seem to have got away, and it was pointed out to me that all the 345 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:49,760 others, it looked as if as soon as they hit, and a highly polluted atmosphere, something went wrong 346 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,640 with either if they were animals, they're breeding, if they were machines, were there areas to take, 347 00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:01,040 or something, in other words, that if they are extraterrestrial creatures of one kind or another, 348 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,520 they were apparently doing a swoop down into our atmosphere to take a look, see, and then 349 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,320 get information and go on up again, and what actually happened was they hit some of the wrong 350 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,440 kind of air, and something went wrong with them, they went out of control, the flatwoods one was 351 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,200 able to land and have a look around, see what had happened to his colleagues or where he was, 352 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,160 number two and three hit hills, fell out of control, and number five, 353 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,520 number three and four, and number five grew up in here, come to the end of what I have to say 354 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,480 really, there's an enormous amount more to it, which I could go on almost indefinitely, but I 355 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,480 think that's enough detail for anybody asked to absorb at one go, my personal opinion, and I 356 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:46,960 just like to throw in is that none of those people were telling lies, those flatwoods especially, 357 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,000 that the 400 other people whom we interviewed, including the young man who reported this, please, 358 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:59,760 number three incidents of crash, and those young farmers, were certainly not lying, they were 359 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,400 highly skeptical group, they did not believe in flying saucers if they'd heard of them, 360 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,720 but they did say that there were these objects in the sky, they had their time down cast, I mean 361 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,560 we'd say well what time was it, they said well let me see now, dawn comes and so on, I usually put 362 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,640 my porch light on and so on, so that's where they hit, and they pin it down within the minute, 363 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,160 and they all jived all over, and their descriptions gave exactly the course of these things on an 364 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,640 aerial map, and I don't think those people were lying, I do think there were those six objects, 365 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,000 so what they were, of course I have the foggiest notion, the last pay off was John's, that we did 366 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,120 have this funny white stuff analyzed, my friends took it down to one of the labs in Monsanto, 367 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,160 and they couldn't be much better there, they had this numerous spectrographic analysis 368 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:49,920 machinery, they weren't able to find out what it was, it seemed to be a, from a plastic nature, 369 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:56,080 but to be of an organic structure, the only thing they could think was that it looked more like 370 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,240 of the dried up skin of a snake, say, than anything else, how come ever one of the labs, 371 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:04,720 the citizens down there, managed to soften it up, they'd been trying to soften it up in 372 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:10,720 any everything, and he said why don't you try water, because they did, now one of these little 373 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:15,040 rolls of stuff, which were only about the size of my little finger, went stretched out, measured 374 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,440 nine and a half inches, and I would like to know what snake's egg found in the United States or 375 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,760 anywhere else, from which you could get a strip nine and a half inches long, the parting shot was 376 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,800 a humus one made by John DeBarrie, when I told him about all this, he said uh-oh, perhaps they 377 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,080 were space people, but perhaps they're reptiles, and we're looking for somewhere to lay an egg.